Conversations of the Insane, the Inane, the Profane and the Lame-Brained
What follows is a chilling on-line conversation between Sahaja Yogis that took place in 2003.
Subject: Do i need to apologize for rejecting Ishmael's Shri Kalki claim?
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Ishmael Abraham" <ishmael35a@y...> wrote:
I commend your bravery brother on this post. It is the reality of my existence since being conveyed through the celestial Shri Virgin over 4 1/2 years ago. I return but not with anything new, as there is nothing new under the sun, all is repackaged.
A few comments though are in order. Not very long ago you raised a stinky over our Brother Furat's attempt to post the same literature. You tried to make him out as the crazy one, who needed help. I held my tongue, I have the memory of the elephant..so i know there is a mending of the fences in order here. Something called an apology i believe.
This is indeed the future for Sahaja Yogis who are fearless and do not run away when She comes for you..the alternative is some thing like what happened to Daphne..being pursued by a presense as great as a mountain.
To all SYs of this forum,
Since late 2002 Ishmael has been trying to claim himself to be Shri Kalki, and his wife a reincarnation of lady Magdalene. Some SYs have believed him and now there is a small sect around him, the same way there was a small group of SYs around the false prophet SDM in the mid 1980s. i believe that if no action is taken we SYs will one day face a cult led by Ishmael claiming himself to be Shri Kalki.
Two years ago i tried to reason with him but to no avail; he just wanted me to confirm that he is Shri Kalki. Naturally i rejected him as politely as possible so as not to hurt him because i remember how another Kalki imposter in 1996 bawled and stomped around heartbroken when i told him that there was something wrong with him mentally, and that he was definitely no Kalki.
Below are my emails to play down the issue, hoping that Ishmael will come to his senses and forget the whole issue:
Ishmael Abraham <ishmael35a@y...> wrote:
Thanks for the wisdom of your heart. It is true enough what you say. My goal in this life is to put on, on this earth, the body i wore in heaven. I may have to wait till my life in this body is finished, but i will somehow exist here for the next 800 years or so..She has said this to me. Exactly 867 she said from the birth. I cant say what form , but the only one i could bear for so long is the celestial one. This is what i hold as a goal, to work towards every day. The rest of my life is just to support this.
Love to you, Ishmael
Thank you for the reply but from your answers now i have more questions as something is just not right regarding your Kalki claim:
1) What exactly did Shri Mataji tell you regarding Shri Kalki?
2) Why is this extremely secret information allowed to be available? That is why i told you that the Divine cannot sanction such a frightening announcement when there is absolutely no reason for doing so - 99.99% of the world has absolutely no knowledge that the Adi Shakti is on Earth to announce the Last Judgment and Resurrection! Yet the emergence of Shri Kalki is being leaked. Ishmael, it just does not make sense to me as i know that the Divine just does not act this way!
3) Shri Kalki is supposed to just come and kill, and will not be born as a human being on Earth. Your present position does not fit this reality. Can you explain please?
You told me that "Yes i have a plan in motion to address Shri Mataji, it should be a short time before this is done." i did not mean the physical Shri Mataji but the One within. Any attempt to address the physical Shri Mataji will only make matters worse as She has made it clear that no one can claim to be Shri Kalki. Ishmael, i very strongly advise you not to do so. Maybe 800 years from now things may be different but to do so at present is fraught with danger and damnation. Please do not proceed ............ and also do not talk about Shri Kalki anymore. This is an extremely dangerous Divine personality who will be the Man on the White Horse. i know that He will be none other that Lord Jesus Christ.
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:43:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Ishmael Abraham" <ishmael35a@y...> Subject: Re: your post To: "jagbir singh" <adishakti_org@y...>
Let me make one or two things clear before i continue. a.) I dont owe you anything. b.) be careful what you try to tell me to do. I do know it comes from your heart, so i am only seeing my concerned brother.
> 1) What exactly did Shri Mataji tell you regarding > Shri Kalki?
If you still have the journal i sent you read the part about the faces of the divine. replace the name kartekiya. because jesus+kartekiya=kalki. I posses the memories of my lives, i dont need to explain them.
2) Why is this extremely secret information allowed to be available? I will only say as in my post, a warning. I posted for your reflection, to stop you destroying your vishuddhi. You deserve the best chance also. I have watched, directed, supported and protected this group, cringing with disgust at some of the behaviour exhibited by SY's.
3) Shri Kalki is supposed to just come and kill, and will not be born as a human being on Earth. Your >present position does not fit this reality. Can you explain please?
I am not going to explain the actions of God, when the Goddess if finished with the pheonix, she sets it off, it acts on it own, with the authority of God. When i begin my work, the bulk of SY's unfortunately may be the last to realize. It puts a new twist on first will be last...though some sit in Nirvikalpa, that is not the end...it is like a waiting room for the ultimate journey.
Normally i am quite used to my agnya lighting up with thousands of needles of fire, they flow down the sides of the face. This is an aspect of shri agni (needles of fire). The first day of Diwali the whole head lit in a wave of this light and it sustained itself quite nicely.
I have gone out of my way to satisfy your curiousity. I have little to add. Except maybe remind you again, God knows your books, he is not bound by them as you seem to be.
Regards my Brother, Love Ishmael
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:14:42 -0800 (PST) From:"Ishmael Abraham" <ishmael35a@y...> Subject: Re: your post To: "jagbir singh" <adishakti_org@y...>
I only wish to say Shri Mataji and I are in complete accord with each other. She said to me upon our first meeting many years ago in the flesh, "I know all about you, THEY have told me everything, all about you".
I of course did not know all about anything at that time.
A few months later in 2003 Ishmael took offence at my posting an article on the Kalki Avatar. i asked him publicly why he felt that way and i realized that he still had not given up on his Shri Kalki:
You seem to be mighty miffed about what Shri Mataji may have said about Kalki, which i am in no position to accept or deny. Since you seem to be cocksure and know the reason for taking offence at Shri Mataji's private talk, please have the guts to explain to those like me who do not take such temper tantrums lightly. ............. especially if they are against Shri Mataji. i am sure members of this forum are shocked by your arrogance and may want some answers. Please clear your chest once and for all."
PS: Furat, i am still working on your previous posting and will reply soon.
That was when Furat, as a devotee of Ishmael, joined to protect his Lord and warned me against speaking against Ishmael;
"What a coward I am! I feel terribly ashamed. The Divine had arranged the whole situation, but I chickened out at first. (I hope the Deities will forgive me, but I do not see another arrangement like this coming again.) And so though it's quite late, I must speak now anyway…"
As an old friend in armour, I am warning you: now is the time to start controlling ourselves; please, be_very_careful as to what you say from now on!
"As Sahaja Yogis we must know that certain events and coincidences are beyond our own making. In fact Shri Mataji teaches that EVERYTHING is done by Paramchaitanya. How many times before have you overreacted and then apologised for it? This will be no exception.
1. Do not put words in Sahajis' mouths; 2. Do not put words in Shri Mataji's mouth. 3. Know, if a children's tale with innocent intentions can make you angry like that King Mercer, there must be something wrong with you.
a). You know perfectly well that there is enough room for both kinds of interpretations; b). Your reaction, especially if it is shared by many (which is not the case), clearly implies that which we have not been admitting to: namely that there is a fear of this subject. No, we are TERRIFIED of it! That is your soft spot, that was your reaction!
So why do we keep bringing it up then? And why did you have to jump like this? Now we cannot avoid it anymore, as I had hoped at first, but simply have to face it.
So, Jagbir, I must ask you now: please, come out and admit to the above two points of (a) and (b). You have to do it now...
And again, Jagbirji, for old time's sake, I am reinforcing the above warning, counting on your discretion."
PS: I do not mind the other discussion -- draft it, as we will return to it when it's time.
i then tried to get the help of Ivan and Balwinder to stop Furat before he made a fool of himself. This is because all of us were the team that finally put an end to Simon's forum. i did not want a friend to suffer ridicule and embarrassment.
There was no response from Ivan but Balwinder did pursue the matter further with Furat before contacting me. It was something that i never expected, and that Ishmael had brainwashed him good. (i know Ishmael has a few more followers who submit to his Kalki authority.)
This is the correspondence between Balwinder and Furat:
Furat: Thank you, Balwinder, for your softness as usual.
Let me assure I never asked anything of the kind Jagbir by now has almost managed to accuse me of.
Balwinder: Can you be specific please Furat?It is best we all be specific at this juncture to avoid any further misundersatndings.
Furat: And so one thing I do not enjoy at all is prosetylising. I am requesting this more for your own as well as the Collective's sake, so that the differences may cease.
Balwinder: I am lost as to what you are trying to say Furat.I thought we are all SYs here having a discussion
Furat: My question, no matter how "out-of-place" it appears, has been one and one only: "Who is Ishmael".
Balwinder: The question to me is innocent.The problem starts when the question of knowing what Ishmael has told Jagbir (the sexual intercourse part).
Furat: I know He is who He is, it's just I'm dreaming of the day I wouldn't need to feel I must forever be hiding something and not be able to speak about certain issues.
But if my Patron Saint is being actively discredeted, that is when I am compelled to act with full force at hand. Otherwise I am not worthy this honour. And one cannot patronise innocence, even less if it has its arms open towards us, not judging back, and being forgiving...
Balwinder: I admire with your loyalty to your belief Furat.Who is actively discrediting Ishamel?
Furat: I've been granted all these boons beyond my imaginantion. And this is my way of making a statement to the Divine that I have been deserving of this. I too must stand and proclaim the Truth, as I know it.
Balwinder: Discretion must go hand in hand with proclaiming the Truth.In this case you may be the only one "knowing this truth" . Jagbir has a lot of resistance even from some SYs themselves just to believe the meditative experiences of his kids. Is the question about "who is Ishmael" for your own conviction only? The other more important question which went unanswered the last time is that "how will the question and then the answer benefit SY?"
Furat: I know Shri Mataji knows I am sincere. And She will most certainly find a way to respond that would not disturb any of our own respective understandings, protect Jagbir and at the same time clear Ishamel's name. Who is a saint, who is an incarnation, and who as such would never lie and has no ego. (What happened to our Vibratory Awareness part thing BTW? As he has said, he is a dead man, i.e. with a body transforming into Paramchaitanya; see the ibn Arabi bit I posted.)
Balwinder: Are you talking about clearing Ishmael's name on the forum or in North America? How will Jagbir's children question help in clearing the name when 1)Mother could just say he is a normal SY 2)SYs still have doubts about the childrens' experiences
Furat: But as I've said before he has never explicitly told me anything other than what I would ask him. And this has not been one of the questions. I find it somehow more rude to ask him upfront than to ask Mother. It's true.
Balwinder:Frankly I am suprised.
Furat: The reason why nasty things have been said about Lord Krishna's relationship with women
Balwinder: I actually made the reference from Mother's talk that Krishna had 16,000 wifes but he never talked/boasted about his sexual experience with them.
Furat: So to answer your qurestion, Brother Balwinder, Ishmael having sexual intercourse with the Goddess is a misunderstanding on my brother Jagbir's part from A to Z.
Balwinder: IMO Jagbir must clear the air on this as soon as possible (immediately).
Furat: I doubt letting you read that journal itself is a good idea for now. It must be approached with reverance and a desire to learn about death in life rather than clearing somebody's doubts. We will be reading it anyway when we've all humbled ourselves just a little more in due time.
Balwinder: The idea to want to read it never even crossed my mind and since you mentioned, it can wait because I am still catching up on Shree Mataji's talks alone.
Furat: So when I dragged you in, brother Balwinder, it was because I knew you would try to act wisely and prevent your elder brother from proceeding with what clearly appears to be a tragic fooloshness, when he would seek your regular counsel.
Balwinder: He hardly seeks my counsel and I really would like to be able to understand the tragic fooloishness part.
Furat: But it would be a tragedy if it were not to happen! So it was better you formulated those classically deadly objections of yours to me personally than providing Jagbirji with an excuse for a quick and easy way out.
Balwinder: Like I said I "thought" I could contribute.
Furat: I also think you would agree with me that as it is it would still be much better for this situation to be resolved now than in five years from now on... Or this way than the painful official way.
Balwinder: Personally the earlier the better but whether going thru the kids at this juncture is a big question mark ............ in the near future thru them would be a better idea IMO.
Furat: And so if Mother's answer is: "he's an SY brother", then it simply means we are not meant to draw ANY sort of conclusions as well as that we try to keep friendly relations. But it would also mean he's not guilty as charged... ;-
Balwinder: Can I presume the charge is the disgusting "claim to having sexual intercourse" with SM? I would still like Jagbir to shed some light on this claim first - I know it is difficult for him too to even mention such a charge against anyone let alone a SY brother.
Jai Shri Mataji!
Balwinder contacted me. i told him what had transpired and how Ishmael had tried to convince me in late 2002 that he was Shri Kalki:
Balwinder: IMO Jagbir must clear the air on this as soon as possible (immediately).
Jagbir: This is no misunderstanding. Ishmael sent me a file about his experiences even though i never requested them. He asked me to check and see what i thought of them.
It was a rather large file and i just skimmed through it. Some of his experiences were rather difficult for me to understand - evil spirits coming out and being destroyed, ugly demons materializing from SDM toilet forum. Others were quite pleasant. But one thing is clear - he did not meditate to enter into the Sahasrara. It was as if they were happening right before him.
Only after a few weeks/months did i begin to read it thoroughly and that was when i came across the sexually explicit paragraph. Ishmael made it clear that he thoroughly enjoyed that tryst and, if my memory is correct, 'shri mataji' was on top. That shook me because immediately i knew something was very wrong.
I know that Shri Mataji in the Sahasrara takes extreme precaution and not have even a remote reference to sex or lust. She covers Her front with the sari at ALL times and neither Kash, Arwinder nor Lalita have ever been able to ascertain if She wears a necklace. I have asked them to find this out but they just can't, though they tell me about Her koka (nose-ring), rings on fingers and toes etc. She guards Her modesty at all times. That is why Ishmael's claim is monstrous. How can Furat say that i have a misunderstanding?!!!!!!!
Everything that happens to me has a reason. Thus this exposure of Ishmael is no fluke. I feel that he made a mistake by not erasing that sexual part from his experiences. Maybe he forgot or whatever, but the fact that it was sent to me is sufficient. This will destroy his claim to be Shri Kalki. I WILL DESTROY HIS CLAIM! He will make his move and enforce his claim once Shri Mataji leaves - mark these words!
Furat has been told that Shri Mataji, in a late 90's Puja talk, scoffed at someone claiming to be Shri Kalki. She added that he should send Her some saris. Ishmael claims that American SYs knew he had powers before being ostracized by them, possibly because of the NA leader Manoj. I know he dislikes Manoj and his Kalki claim has to be partly the reason. But Furat just does not care to confirm this.
Ishmael has always, and still continues to, deflect any evidence that cast doubts on his Kalki claim. That is why he even scorns scripture because it does not fit him. That is why he scorned at Shri Mataji making the statement two years ago because it does not fit him!!!!!! Why is Furat bending over backwards and breaking his back in the process, against all logic and against Shri Mataji Herself, to project Ishmael as Kalki????!!!!!!!!!
I have yet to comprehend why are we even discussing him. This is not the first Kalki impersonator I have met and probably not the last. The previous one also wanted me to endorse his claim and made a manifesto to be read to all SYs. (I still have that evidence.) It would have been a disaster had i in any way continued associating with him. But he still managed to cause damage after being sought by Yogi Mahajan.
Ishmael is playing the same game. He wants me to endorse his claim. Just to let you both know that negativity is very cunning and continues to find ways to destroy the Truth. I have been given enough lessons regarding false claims and so i know that Ishmael is 100% an imposter. You think the Adi Shakti has no better work to do than seeking sexual favors? What utter rubbish and unforgivable blasphemy! This is surely the worst i have ever heard regarding my Niskalanka Primordial Mother. Are we insane by thinking this is just a mere misunderstanding?
Now this whole thing is flaring up again, perhaps for the last time. Ivan and Balwinder, can both of you put an end to this madness and Ishmael's claim? SYs really do not want to deal with a breakaway Kalki sect in future. It is time to destroy all the negativity that affects Sahaja Yoga. This is one of the worst negativity towards Shri Mataji, one that is against Her chastity. Ivan, you have the power to destroy this false Kalki for all times. So just perform your duty!
Jai Shri Mataji,