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2878 From: Esther Seijmonsbergen  <ed.seijmonsbergen@p...>  

Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 5:37am
Subject: thank you for making me laugh

Dear all of you,   I am reading your marvellous e-mail since the 5th of August. Now I  can't  wait anymore to send you a mail myself. I hope this mail  arrives at the  right place. My name is Esther. I left SY almost 3  years ago. (I was  thrown out half a year before I decided to give up  the nonsense). It's  amazing how we all have these same experiences,  though we are different  people from different countries. It makes it  the more clear how the way  we thought and acted had not much to do  with who we are. We were really  robotlike.

One of the first mails I received was the one of Odysseus, telling  the  do's and don'ts. Every word of it is true. It was even much  worse. I  threw away some 80% of my books or even burnt them!! I was  just about to  finish my study of theology and threw away my carrier  in that field as  well.

Of course I did all the funny things like you did. Mentally I often  felt  locked in. I heard again and again that i was thinking too much  and how  I had to work on my agnya. I also gave up a part of my  friends. After  not seeing them or hardly seeing them for more than  seven years, luckily  I got flowers from several of them, welcoming  me back when I contacted  them after leaving SY.

I won't make this mail too long. But I want to thank all of you who  make  me laugh. The story about the genes (I'm sure it was genes and  not chromosomes) was splendid! I remember it to be even funnier: The  indians  are supposed to have this extra pair. The africans are  supposed to have  half of the extra pair. We pour rest of the  worlders don't have them. Love, Esther     2879 From: Odysseus  <balancedmind@y...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 5:41am Subject: Re: thank you for making me laugh

Hellooooooo Ester! I am glad you have joined in the conversation. I am sure you will add  a  unique perspective to us all. I also chucked a lot of old photos  and  other stuff that now I wish I had saved. I was such a dweeb. I  am so  glad that your friends were ready and waiting for you on the  other side.

That is a great story. I'll try to add a couple stories to help make  you laugh even more.

Later, Odysseus

2881 From: nathalie doe  <nathaliedoe@h...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 6:03am Subject: Re: [SY] thank you for making me laugh

Esther, how lovely to have you, we need more and more females in this  forum, come on, sisters, join in, I hope the brothers are not  listening....actually  all of them are beautiful hearts and friendly!  I hope you will enjoy  the mad, sad and hilarious exchanges,  personally I am now totally  addicted...nobody will ask you for THE  blood test(to be with extra genes  or not to be) we are not  genetically correct around here....

Much love and a big Hug Nathalie   2882 From: Odysseus  <balancedmind@y...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 6:10am Subject: Realized celebrities

Ok everyone, we have all heard about certain 'realized' celebrities  throughout time. Some of them were pretty outrageous. It is so silly  to  what limits Mrs. S will go to claim validation of realization. Here is some that I can remember being mentioned...

Princess Diana (Who Mrs. S later got upset about because Diana - after her death - was so popular with sy's. Mrs. S even went so far as to complain  about  sy's liking her so much. It's too bad, because Princess Diana  was such a  wonderful person.)

Albert Einstein (Who was supposedly the recipient of Mrs. S's theory of relativity -  which she blessed him with. So kind. Hmmm. Wonder why she didn't just  write it down herself. Oh yeah, she was too busy raising children to  save the world.)

Abraham Lincoln (The subject of many a speech. Kept the US together through a war  while still maintaining a good sense of humor.)

Sadat (Poor guy, couldn't be saved by his protective paramchaitanya.)

Gorbachev (Darn it Gorby, why couldn't you just have met with Mrs. S. Then  Russia  would be on top of the world!! Seriously, she has claimed  that he was going to meet her but, of course, he didn't. Someone  wrote in here that she said she would meet with Bush. Yeah, right.  Smells like the Nobel  Prize again to me. A Bush in the hand is  better than two Bush's in the  bush.... :-) ....)

Gandhi (Funny...you never said anything about hanging out with the Goddess  child. I guess you were too busy.)

And many more....yep, there's someone for everyone...

Kahlil Gibran William Blake Eddie Murphy (believe it or not) Ex-PM of New Zealand etc etc etc. I welcome anyone's additions or subtractions! Odysseus

2883 From: quasarx@u...  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 6:21am Subject: Re: [SY] Realized celebrities

yeah Rajnesh believe it or not got his realization in a previous life. story goes he was so in love/lust with the goddess and worshipped her  so much, she gave him the grace. i aint lying, was told that by a  leader!

others are: Sommerset Maughan (mayb) C.S.Lewis Oh William Blake wasnt so much as realized but an incarnation of  St.Michael John Mackenroll cant think of more .. but i know there are about another dozen or so. ~ Q   2884 From: Esther Seijmonsbergen  <ed.seijmonsbergen@p...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 6:29am Subject: Re: [SY] Realized celebrities

Michael Jackson also was supposed to be realized


2885 From: barry.clay  <barry.clay@n...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25am Subject: Re:Holy coconut and other museings

Still keep digging up those seemingly indestructable coconuts from  the garden,pre SY days remnants left to further haunt me,seems that I  always  got lumbered with disposing of the nastily vibrated garbage  from those pujas etc notwithstanding the humble coconut complete with  its swastikas  painted in khum khum,the local river was a favourite  dumping point for them watching them bob up and down while vanishing  upstream!

do you remember that we were told the dimples represented the three  eyes of Shiva? One Sahaja Yogi had a couple of dustin bags full of  vibrated material building up in his garage and used to take them  with him on holidays to dump overboard on the ship he was  travelling...anything to  decalare sir,only a couple of bagfulls of  vibrated refuse to chuck  overboard..ah well thats fine carry on but  make sure you chuck them downwind we dont want any problems you  know!!!

Also has anyone noticed that a box of matches will now last forever  in the house,at one time it was matches,candles,jostiks by the  bucketfull,the total consumption of these essentials by SY types must  be tremendous,jostiks purchased at meetings were usually rubbish  quality I once lit one and it went off like a firework filling the  house full of fumes,excessive use of these and inhaling the smoke can  cause cancer did you know but thats not a problem in SY of course.

That awful Ajwam seed for clearing the liver and things when mixed  into a tea like substance,found a bottle of the seeds on the top  shelf that had solidified into a granite like mix,also sitting over a  burning mix of this was supposed to clear the base chakra (how on  earth you were supposed to do this is anyones guess?!!) and ok I too  fell for the lemon/chillie concoction straddled around my pillow at  night in brown bags which you were not supposed to look into but open  them with care every morning for seven days in front of her  photograph,reseal them and repeat the procedure night after night and  once again into the river when the watwer bailiff was not looking

it goes on and on and any non SY types reading this will wonder what  on earth we are talking about,but we did really do these things  because she said so,if we were told to jump in the river after them  we would have probably done that too!!! it really makes you realise  the degree of mind control that exists within SY which is a very  dangerous thing and the various authorities are quite right to ban  this method in different countries of the world,I am so glad to have  read those warnings and acted promptly and indeed thankful to this  group and its members for their utmost support.                                                                        Barry Clay.    2886 From: barry.clay  <barry.clay@n...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 9:06am Subject: Victory over what exactly?

We all remember the greeting indoctrinated into us 'Jai Shrimatagi'  but what exactly were we implying with this greeting? a victory over  what? dictionery quote:conqueror,winning of battle,triumphant etc it  certainly smacks of a real ego trip when put into this context and  yet the ego was something we were always told to avoid,as a lot of  things in Sahaja Yoga it is a contradiction in terms but it certainly  seems to shed some light into the way that her mind must work.

I always felt a little uneasy in having to repeat this time and time  again and use it as a greeting to fellow Sahaja Yogis/Yoginis,we are  back to that Hitler thing again because he also used similar ploys to  power with his'Hail Hitler' you know the more that I think of the  similarity between these two parties it makes one think more deeply  of her long term intentions despite her obvious age,we really know  very little about her in terms of the way her devious mind works and  probably never will do I am sad to relate.

The closed shop approach to her life and business ventures seems to  have revolved around power and the adoration she craves,what a very  sad state of affairs for anybody not only demanding power but  prepared to go to a great deal of trouble to attain it,ie her  constant wanderings around the world in the name of Sahaja Yoga and  the recruitment of unsuspecting individuals from which to bleed their  souls,spirit and pockets all in one foul sweep.

The pattern of her behaviour seems to have changed dramatically since  the inception of SY in 1970,not for the better but the added misery  of the captivated and fanatical followers that she has produced is  now legend as we all now know.

So what really is in that brain that motivates a self appointed  Goddess? is it really for power,real estate,money,greed or all four  put together but think very carefully of that greeting once  again....'Jai Shrimataji' does it tell us more about her than we  really think?                                                                        Barry Clay.    2887 From: Emeltee  <emeltee54@y...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 10:46am Subject: Re: [SY] Realized celebrities

Hi Esther Nice to hear from you. Looking forward to hearing more about your  experiences in SY. It sounds as if you've had an interesting time of  it.Just to add to the list of realized celebs:

**Handel **Mozart (and I'm sure many other classical composers, but Mozart was  the one I heard most of) **Whoever composed The Four Seasons?... I can't think of the name  right now.... One of my favourites..... Blast!! Hate it when the ole  memory fails!! (Remember greeting the rising sun from the highest  point you could find, with your back to it (although it was evidently  also good to quickly glance directly at it as it just as it came  up...?) - to clear the back agnya? Some ppl did say it had improved  their vision, but it sure didn't do much for my power of memory  (which it was supposed to do..).

**Kate Bush **Bjorn Borg (what a final that one was, between the two supposedly  born-realized players, back in the 80's sometime - 18-16 in the final  set....!!? Something like that. They may or may not have been  spiritually evolved beings, but they sure could play...!!)

**William Shakespeare And from the more humble, albeit very successful, literary arena:

**Agatha Christie

**Barbara Cartland (who evidently knew how to write of the most  dharmic relationships.. funny how she later became Princess Diana's  grand-mother-in-law..(if there is such a thing).

.....and the list goes on. More and more come to mind as I sit here,  so I'm sure there are heaps more.

Anyway, once again, welcome Esther. Keep on writing in. Love to all, Em.

2888 From: Emeltee  <emeltee54@y...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 11:15am Subject: Re: [SY] Realized celebrities

Hi Quasar

Re: Rajnesh believe it or not got his realization in a previous life. story goes he was so in love/lust with the goddess and worshipped her  so much, she gave him the grace

E: Hadn't heard this one, but it isn't really surprising. All of the  devils are really fallen angels, aren't they...?

Then again, I wouldn't have thought that an obsession such as the one  that Ravanna had for Sita could be called love (lust, for sure, but  not love), or be considered healthy in any way. He kidnapped her,  used her against her will (raped her?), kept her from her husband and  family, made it so that she was shunned when she was eventually  rescued by Hanuman, and for that he gets his realisation!!? Or have I  got the wrong story...?

And we thought it was a special gift, given only to God's true  seekers... Good people... I guess (if true) that this really would  mean that the goddess's capacity for forgiveness and compassion is  boundless. ...I also note that there was no love lost between  Rajneesh and SM in this lifetime....

[ snip]

Cheers Em

2889 From: Emeltee  <emeltee54@y...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 11:51am Subject: Flowers and swastikas

Hi everyone A few thoughts, somewhat rambling... I've been  contemplating what makes something auspicious, and what can detract  from it. I remember being told that carnations were not meant to be  offered at puja because of some past associations, funerals or  something, along with canna lilies, etc..

Anyway, I was later told that they had been offered to SM so often  that they eventually lost their "negative" qualities, and it was OK  to offer them again. Now, I'm sure that when they were created,  carnations were just beautiful creations of the universe, and would  have been quite auspicious.

Gold, as I understand, is not tarnishable, so why is it possible to  change the vibrations of a beautiful flower just because it has been  used as a symbol of love and sadness at the burial of a friend or  family member. Why do we suddenly become inauspicious just because we  die anyway....? Another contemplation.. another day..

Just wondering about the swastika. It was an auspicious symbol, the  sign of Ganesha, then it was abused by Hitler, and it was surely not  treated in an auspicious way .. How come it wasn't tarnished by that?  It was present at a lot of mass burials. It was much worse - a symbol  of the "reason" for mass murder, even, unlike the humble carnation..  Why is it still OK to offer at puja?

Even Shri Mataji's photograph is evidently capable of being affected  by negativity, which is the reason for some of those rituals someone  was talking about recently (was it Barry?)...including the regular  worship of the photographs (all of them - none are meant to be used  for purely decorative purposes) - to keep the vibrations pure.

I was present many years ago when a SYogini was told (by SM) that she  was being affected by negativity from a gold necklace she was  wearing, and she was asked what was in the locket. It contained a  picture of SM.

She was told that it (and all other jewelry) should be washed with  vibrated water each night, and left on the altar overnight for  purification. Just realised, that this contradicts the earlier  thought that it isn't possible to tarnish gold (on the subtle level I  mean). I must have just dreamed that one up somewhere along the way..

I remember thinking (and feeling bad about it), that SM hadn't  expected to be told that her own photo was in the locket ... Then I  think I convinced myself that it was a lesson for us, not to take her  photograph for granted. It isn't clear to me, though, how some things  are so badly affected by the use to which they are put (ie. the  humble carnation..), and others not... Can any SY's help me out  here....? Love to all, Em

2892 From: Esther Seijmonsbergen  <ed.seijmonsbergen@p...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 3:13pm Subject: Re: [SY] Realized celebrities

Dear Em, The four seasons was composed by Vivaldi. I will tell more stories I  promise. Esther   2893 From: Esther Seijmonsbergen  <ed.seijmonsbergen@p...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 3:59pm Subject: Re: [SY] Hierarchy in cults and Keeping'em damn busy

Dear Em, Miquel and all of you,

My God, when i read your mail about daily ashram life, it all comes  back to me. I have lived for 5 and a half years in the only ashram in  Holland, in Amsterdam. I suffured a lot under the hierarchy, living  with the national leader in the same ashram. He was (and probably is)  really like a dictator.

We didn't had a lot of privacy. I love Indian dance and I took  lessons for about 6 years, most of them before I came to SY. In SY I  was told to stop by Henno(the leader) for the vibrations of my  teacher were not right. I even had an enormous fight when I decided  to go to a performance of one of my favourite dancers on the night of  a sahaj-meeting.

There were always a thousands things you had to do, but not many you  were free to do.

Do you also remember that when two people were kissing on television,  the telly was put on another program. This I found really sick,  allready then. But mentioning that would mean you have a terrible  muladhara. Before SY I enjoyed cooking very much. In SY I started to  dislike is every day more.

There were always these funny comments, especially by Henno. He often  told yogini's that for sure Guido would have refused to eat it. I  always thought what a terrible guy this must be, frustrating the  women so much. But those things I discussed only with fellow yoginis.

One of the things I liked about ashram-life was the many foreign  guests we have had. Suddenly then the atmosphere was nice and open,  everyone joyful. You heard nice stories and we were singing. After a  few years I noticed that i started to dislike pujas and was waiting  till we finally finished and could eat prasad and talk to each other.  Of course I felt guilty about my feelings.

You were told not to feel guilty, the guilt-feeling being made by the  catholic church. But in SY I have felt guilty about my feelings and  thoughts all the time. What a freedom lives gives me now. Especially  the inner freedom to feel the way I do and to think the way I do and  of course also to act the way I do.

By the way I enjoy cooking again, so if you vistit Holland don't  hesitate topass by! Love, Esther   2894 From: frank miller  <frankmil31@y...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 4:14pm Subject: Re: [SY] Re:Holy coconut and other museings

Barry, I was told that in the Austrian ashram, they had(still have,  may be??) a special chair to 'clean' the mooladhara, in a special  small room too: The seat of the chair had been taken off, in other  words, you would crouch there 'pantless', with the Ajwain burning  underneath, and all your bhoots would evaporate!!!

I just hope this special treatment was(is?)not done collectively????  I say 'pants' to that! The Goddess  must be laughing all the way to  the bank! Barry, you started something  with your lemons etc... Greetings Frank   2895 From: frank miller  <frankmil31@y...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 5:37pm Subject: Genes? Half- Half?

Thanks for the info, Esther: I did not know that the Goddess had  three categories of 'realised' souls? So the Asians apparently have  two extra genes, then the Africans, half of that, and then the  Whites? Whathappens if you are half-half? What is she again? Oh,  yes: "Asian" so that puts her at the top, doesn' it? The top of the  Lunie Bin, I say! Regards Frank

2897 From: allana@o...  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:58pm Subject: Vibrated water

hello All! Once, in my very beggining, a newcommer was invited for  the local puja, of course he wanna also washing the holy feet. After  the puja, we shared the vibrated water, drank it. Next Monday some of  us got a diarrhea. Nobody was thinking about a excess of candies and  sweet food, just the poor one was accused to have bad vibrations and  advised not to come for pujas for a while. Our leader told him  lightly the reason.

after two months, he was back and ready to attend a real puja. For me  the "picture puja" was a big fantasy, but i had to show more  devotion, and perform a puja, every week!! I did! A.

2898 From: Esther Seijmonsbergen  <ed.seijmonsbergen@p...>  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 9:01pm Subject: Re: [SY] Genes? Half- Half?/marriage

Dear Frank and others,

I well remember the half extra-pair of genes, for I had an arranged  marriage with an African. So my children are half-half. Imagine they  are supposed to have a quarter extra??? I didn't hear stories yet  about your arranged marriages. Were any of you happy? You could have  been lucky and got the right partner! I haven't been that lucky. It  was a disaster from the very beginning. Of course I told everyone,  especially myself that I was very happy. But how to be happy with a  husband that does not love you and is not willing to try even...

I suffured a lot under this marriage. Finally it was this marriage  that made me doubt about ms $. When I decided to leave my husband  (being pregnant from his unwanted child) to save my child, I realised  that it could never have been God who those this husband for me. Then  quickly the whole illusion about her fell to the ground and I started  to be very very angry about her misusing my trust, my time, my money,  my mind, my life.

I must say that in spite of all these bad experiences I live a happy  life now. With two wonderful children. And listening to the music  under all your e-mails, you feel pretty much the same!

Love and understanding, Esther

2899 From: quasarx@u...  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:59pm Subject: Re: [SY] Realized celebrities

Quoting Emeltee <emeltee54@y...>: {re Rajneesh}

its all muddled up like most things were in SY. like hitler -  sometimes u hear he was "possessed" by a mesmerizin demon, othertimes  u hear he was a "demon" himself.

stories r as varied as the different styles of the same treatments. story goes that rajnesh who accordin to SY was ravana, was into loads  of women, and so wanted the most beautiful of all - sita.

now accordin to non-SY tradition - she cudnt have been raped. as that  wud blow ravanna apart. he been cursed by brahman that if he were to  rape another non-consentin woman again, he wud fall dead.

but accordin to SM, she incarnated as one of his wives too. Double  incarnation?? She was also his main wife (that secretly was helpin  out rama and his gang). so its pretty normal for the goddess to sleep  with an asura and stuff - so confusing. i remember when SM told that  story in a puja, that ravana was doin all sorts of austerities to get  the goddess, then after much tricks from shiva and all, the non- jealous god thought "hmm ok have my wife" .. so she came to ravana as  a human being, for which he didnt know. strange strange stories ...

i think the source was the UK leader, but not gonna say it was  100% .. but the story is there. also heard from him (possibly) that a  new race of rakshasas r being born to defeat the Satya Yuga or is it  Krta Yuga .. i never know. which takes us to a next posting  incarnations of "rakshasas" .. u know .. i just think a lot of it, is  invented made up. some where special souls no doubt. But when they  start adding:

Freddie Mercury Eddie Murphy + etc

I dun have anythin against them, but they are hardly dharmic.  everythin was so muddled up in SY: no head, no feet. I mean they just  pick anyone to be realised. I bet a lot of it comes from SYis  checking vibrations - which is as relative and random as tossin a  coin.

[ snip ]

take care hugz ~ Q   2900 From: quasarx@u...  Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 9:34pm Subject: Re: [SY] Flowers and swastikas (auspiciousness)

part of the SY thing, was a list of auspicious and not auspicious  things (poor cats!) somethings were auspicious/divine other satanic  (poor peanut butter!) so i dunno if u heard bout wot is meant to be  goin out of evolution:

- chimpanzees - peanuts - tomato - spiders will stay but r evil EEEEEVIL!!! - cats

- and i heard, but dismissed it cos its way too racist: australian  aboriginals.

cats are BHOOTISH, but its ok if they are lil sweet kittens. so we  had this yogi that hated cats with a passion. and wud go on and on  bout that. {=^:^=} ~ meow ~

then we had a list of "auspicious" things: like hazelnuts, and i cant  think of more lol! so peanut butter is out? but nutella is in?

almonds is good for the sahasrara but bad for the liver.

coffee is good for the left nabhi but bad for the liver.

everythin is good for somethin, but poor liver.

its funny isnt it? I drink sometimes (not too much tho, only on  parties), have those cheeses, have coffee - dun get those "stabbin"  we used to self-suggest often in Sahaja Yoga.

Liver is simple just make sure u drink water. non-SY sense was always  a treason of wisdom for me. -- Last note on carnations Em. Apparently, it was casted out from Heaven cos it was naughty-naughty  Bad BAD!!

The story goes that Vishnu and Brahman were competin about who is the  greatest.

"I am", "No I am", "No your not I am!", "Look you grrrr" they argued.

and behold .. whooooosh! Shiva appeared as a column of light -  infinitely long. stretchin the 3 worlds. (Gosh i can hear a voice of  a leader on those echoin microphones as i narate this hehe) ...

"Ok tell u wot .. whoever finds the end of this column is the  greatest ok?" - said one.

"Hmmm ok deal" - replied the other.

So Brahma decided to go up, seekin the end of that column of light.  Vishnu travelled down to find its end.

I think BrahmaDeva took the form of a flying swan, and Vishnu  sprinted down in the form of a gruntin (but nevertheless  enthusiastic) boar.

High High one flew. Lo Low one went. tremendous time-bendin speeds ..  until suddenly Brahma spots a carnation spirallin helplessly down. "help help!" it yelped.

Brahma stopped - "Hey waaaazaaaah!" "wooooooozaaaaaaa" it replied "so, lil carnation wot u doin here?" "well, i tripped over and fallen from Shiva's heaven"

"Gosh u did? U been fallin for a few aeons then? Cos i cant find the  top here .. tell u wot lil carnation. I am on this competition with  Vishnu. You tell him i found the end of this column and i will give u  almost anythin u want ok?"

"ok deal" it squeeked.

A few millenia later, Brahma was wating for Vishnu to come back. "hey where have u been mate? I found the top of the column of light." "No you never ..." "I did, I did honest!" "Dun believe ya" "he did" - squealed the lil carnation

"oh .. hmmmmmmm " Vishnu had no choice but to accept defeat: "Oh  Brahmadeva u r the highest, the best, and all that and so i prostate  myself to you"

"STOP NOW!" - a thunderin voice. The column of light condensed itself  into Lord Shiva Himself. "That is naughty!" he said. "Well, err ahm ,, ahmmm ... " Brahma was found out, and the carnation  just tried to beam an 'innocent' tho cheeky smile.

"BECAUSE OF THIS THE CARNATION WILL BE THE MOST DISRESPECTED FLOWER  IN  SY. ONLY A FEW WACKY SYogis WILL INSIST IN GIVING IT TO SM. " (I  know of  one, he is pretty cool) .. "BECAUSE OF THIS VISHNU, YOU WILL  BE THE  MOST PRAISED OF US LOT, WHILE BRAHMA: YOU WILL HARDLY GET A  PUJA" ~~~ so that is the story. which apparently involved the carnation. I  think i  read from those Indian Cartoon books (but then can't  remember it was  referin to the carnation flower). But that is how  the story goes in SY. Sorry bout the long story, hehe .. I got  carried away :) ~ Q    


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