Home Up

Appalling Treatment
"Cures" in SY Contradictions Contradictions2 Change Eloquent Letter Sexual Abuse Realized Souls VIP Reception Tax Avoidance Appalling Treatment Funny Mataji's Finances Mataji's Behavior


1821 From: Miguel Henriques  <migcah@h...>  

Date: Mon Oct 23, 2000 7:52am Subject:
Re: [SY] From: Juan

Hello Juan, nice to hear from you, though I'm aproaching hibernation period I  move my paw to say Ugh! nodoubt the sahaj system creates a vast net  of co-dependents, they end up speaking sahajese en masse. That  language kills imagination, intellect,and promotes slave subjection  of the Collective Insect to Big Insect Mother. Best wishes, Miguel

-----Original Message----- From: Juan Etchepareborda [mailto:juan.etchepareborda@b...] Sent: 19 October 2000 17:45

Hello to everyone!

I was asked to give details on a few matters mentioned below, and to  do so I've read the general context of the current discussion in the  archives. This particular post caught my eye, allow me to comment on  it first:

p39559 wrote:

"An image you are broadcasting to the world, affecting the hearts and minds of many good people who reap benefit from the practice of sahaja yoga, and pass that benefit onto society through normal day to day life, aside from the dogma and spiel many resort to through lack of creative imagination, and the formal facades of public meetings. It is their right, and you are impinging upon that right by creating an air of distrust. How can you not expect retaliation, you are  attacking someone whom people love greatly, right or wrong."

J: find this to be a very good comment, specially as reading other  posts of p39559 (sounds like star wars' R2D2) he appears to be the  kind of person who makes the Sahaja Yoga collective shine. Let me say  it, I've had great times in Sahaja Yoga, sharing the company of truly  nice, fun people, and I too would be pissed off by murmuring souls  who would bring a bad name both to the collective and to the  worshipped mother.

Having this in mind, I even thought a few years ago to end any "anti  Sahaj" activities, as I realised that my words and actions were  causing pain to people who involved in a genuine spiritual quest  deserve the highest respect and in a certain way, our protection.

I then thought that if Sahaja Yoga was of any value, any power, any  truth, it should be able to prove me wrong. Sahaja Yoga is advertised  in glowing terms in the official Sahaja Yoga websites, our  contribution as ex-members was therefore to highlight and provide  information on those real things, those happenings in the  organisation that really stink. The "image being broadcasted to the  world" is now complete, both sides of the coin are shown o newcomers to make an informed decision.

All this to say, dear p39559, that if there is any divine truth in  Sahaja Yoga, then why to worry? It should surely overcome our  barking, shouldn't it?

I don't hope to get your agreement, but let's put it this way: Is it  totally unconceivable for you to admit that Shri Mataji is  responsible for BOTH the greatness and decadence of Sahaja Yoga? Yes  there is something absolutely fascinating in her "Unique Discovery"  and in the dedicated passion with which she won our hearts, mind and  soul. But sincerely, wouldn't you feel better about the whole Sahaja  Yoga concept if she would stick to her vows of modesty and  disinterest in material possessions?

If she would stick to "the yoga of the family" concept rather than  fearcefully striving to reach the full attendance of her profitable  indian school by separating kids from their parents? Haven't you ever  seen those weeping toddlers leaving from Rome after a puja in Cabella?

Haven't you seen by yourself the pain of a man or a woman being  pushed to divorce the one they love?

Wouldn't you feel more comfortable and enthusiastic spreading Sahaja  Yoga if you needn't lie about the obvious greed polluting those very  ideals we all shared? Wouldn't you feel thrilled to tell your friends  about it without having to disguise the evident cultish system set by  her?

I'm sure the answer is yes. The real test of a Sahaja Yogi today is  to find ways to silence that evidence, through additionnal dedication  and tortuous ways of silencing their reason into a subtle fanatism.

p39559 wrote: "I know of no parent who would involuntarily send there children away, they would have to be forcibly taken which is not the  case here."

J : I agree. Sahaja Yoga isn't in kidnapping :-) But what  does "voluntarily" mean to a Sahaja Yogi? Who's will are we talking  about? Isn't the whole point of becoming a Sahaja Yogi merging the  individual will to the divine will? Wasn't that the whole idea, when  your individual desire becomes the divine desire of the divine mother?

So when the divine mother tells you her divine desire is that you  send your kids 10'000 miles away what do you do? Quit? That's where  Mataji is responsible, she created a system by which herdevotees lose  their free will, they are totally dependant on her, for "the very better and for the very worse".

Simon Dicon: The palace was bought in part with the money that Mataji stole from Jos Etcheparaborda.

p39559: "No. Money he gave her. And he knew why."

SD: In my presence, Shri Mataji clearly said "this money is a loan,  Sir C.P. is insisting that I give it back to you" José's testimonial  in the website is the only true version. Now think about it, you need  not agree in writing :-) Wouldn't you feel better if Shri Mataji  would just throw that money at José's face rather than dragging this  clearly documented crookery for the generations to come?

p39559: " His statement is a reaction to feeling emotionaly  vulnerable after his premarital affairs were publicly revealed."

J:  Is this ridiculous affirmation in any way supported by a  discussion you have had with José? Are you simply repeating some wise  leader's interpretation? or is this the last version of Mataji's  changing opinion on the embarrasing matter. Remember, first she said  she had never received any money, then she said it was a donation. If  I understand you well, José felt grudges against SY who exposed his  adulterous relation, and as a revenge, claimed his money back?

p39559: "The chastisment from Sri Mataji was good because 'loose' relationships create insecurity in society. This is not to say it  could not have developed as meaningfully as it did, had it  been 'above board'."

J: Cut the lyrics! I see how, you dear p39559, "the kind of person  who makes the Sahaja Yoga collective shine" so readily indulges in  judging others following the party's intoxicating diktaat, in a  matter you know nothing about: At the time the relation was  discovered José's wife was called "a maid-servant prostitute". The  relation was given a possibility to "develop meaningfully" when José  was invited to return to Sahaja Yoga and to officialise his  adulterous relation in Ganapatipule.

This red carpet treatment was proposed, provided José would give-up  claiming the money he had lent.

But how could you know? The matter was discussed between José and  Arneau, in a café in Geneva. If Arneau doesn't want to confirm, ask  Mataji to share with you all the letters José posted to her after  these discussions, which she never replied. She prefers her  lieutenants to handle the dirty jobs themselves.

So, enjoy the "very better", if you want to discuss "the very worse"  you can post write to me at juan.etchepareborda@b...

Peace to all,

Juan   1823 From: Kate Luc  <marcisci@y...>  Date: Tue Oct 24, 2000 6:58am Subject: France

Dear members, thank you for your reply, even if in some ways it shocked me... I  have another question, do you know anything about the situation in  France? Recently SM talked about how lucky are Italian SY because  they are free to do SY While in France they are not allowed anymore.  I was thinking what happened in France and if there was any case that  brought up SY in the negative attention of some government and media  around the world.

I wanted to find out more about SM e SY in the web, but I couldn't  find almost anything apart from this site and the official one. Kate     1826 From: p39559@e...  Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 6:10am Subject: Re: Sahaja Yoga

--- In sahaja-yoga@egroups.com, "Simon Dicon Montford" <sdm@e...>  wrote:

L: Mataji also decides how much money each country has to give for her present.

A. no she doesn't, she suggests.

SD: Mataji's demands and orders are alway euphamistically known as 'advice' or 'suggestions' in SYoga. Advice from somebody claiming to be God is never just advice, especially when she warns of dire consequences to those who refuse her.

A.You percieve God differently to me.

A. But they should realise, that they themselves are God, by allowing the action of the kundalini to predominate over mental  concepts,thereby obtaining a level of discretion in their own  judgement, so as not to require any external in put from Sri Mataji,  which is her only desire in the endeavour she has undertaken. " It is  not what I am that counts, so much as what you become." is a phrase  of hers I have grown attatched to. She can have every penny in the  world after that, for what good it will do her. No'one with that  level of discretion will submit to any external domination by another  human being, the followers of Mahatma Ghandi being a case in point.

A. It does not work unless the individual is trying to develop their  creative freedom, with many individuals like that, each expressing  their unique individuality in a way that is harmonious with the  creative forces internaly and externaly, through every aspect of  society, then the collective blossoms.

SD: Save the poetry. The fact is you shun people.     1828 From: marcisci@y...  Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 6:14am Subject: Re: From: Juan

Few points:

You speak well,but you just speak.... can you imagine the feelings of  a child that have to be sent to live so far away, alone, in a very  different place, where he/she cannot speak the language, where he  miss desperately his parents, his home, his friends, his 'normal'  life...where everything is dirty. Can you imagine it? At least you  made the decision to accept all of it, YOU decided to be a SY and to  worships Mataji...but he didn't and has to follow your weird way of  living even if he is not even conscious of what he is doing.

  1829 From: megcrottie@h...  Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 5:25am Subject: re: [SY] Re: From: Juan

I can imagine what that child went through as my family are going  through the fact that my daughter is worshipping mataji as her mother  and has discarded her own family, me her mother, her grandmother ,  brother and others. I know how it feels it is a like a nightmare that  never goes away. God doews not ask people to give up their loved  ones. God help me to deal with this pain that I go through every  single day.

  1830 From: Simon Dicon Montford  <sdm@e...>  Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:31am Subject: RE: [SY] Re: Sahaja Yoga

SD: Save the poetry. The fact is you shun people.

A. If that's the case, then so do you, and you seem proud of it, I   am not.

SD: Who have I shunned? I'm glad to hear that you're not proud of the  shunnings that Mataji orchestrates.

  1832 From: Simon Dicon Montford  <sdm@e...>  Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:31am Subject: RE: [SY] Re: From: Juan

A. The idea of decadence only comes about when people confront the  concept of loss, contributing the causes of that confrontation to Sri  Mataji, who is willing to set herself up as the perpetrator so long  as the issue is debated.

SD: Are you saying that Mataji is carrying out this theft because we are debating the issue? I guess this would mean that it's our fault that Mataji is ripping people off. But then Mataji started ripping people off long before we started debating it.

A. She emphasises shock value.

SD: I see, so breaking up families is really quite justifiable then.

A. She does not live off the proceeds she so emphatically extricates  from the collective, it is resources pooled and utilised for the  collective. If this is concieved as theft by the majority, they need  to consider from where the filthy lucre may have originated in the  first place; how much of civilization as we now it was procured from  the backs of the hungry and dis-eased, how money markets are  manipulated in socially accepted clubs, and just how much of the  darker nature of money is ignored in order to maintain dis- proportionate and inequitous short-trerm gains for what is  essentially a world minority. How 'honestly' we may have procured it  highlights the relativity of verbal exchange, and it's inability to  resolve anything IN TOTAL.

SD: You seem to be saying that because others have been unfair, thus it is perfectly OK for Mataji to be unfair too. You suggest that she can steal money with moral impunity because that money is not 100% clean. Does that make it OK for me to steal money too?

A. Is that 'honesty' not in fact clouded by the uncertainty of the  origins of the source capital, much as the figurheads of this egroup  are insinuating the fallability of the sahaja yoga endeavour, as due  to its basis in Sri Mataji's example.

SD: You misinterpret the argument. The argument is that all the  evidence points to Mataji being a crook who is capable of being  sickeningly cruel in her attempts to further her own ends, therefore  she is not a very candidate for being the Unique Incarnation of the  Supreme All-Compassionate Goddess as she claims, therefore the  fundamental dogma of Sahaja Yoga is false and the source of much of  the rest of the dogma is questionable.

This means that Sahaja Yogis should stop hanging on Mataji's every  word and start thinking for themselves.

Incidentally, there are no figureheads in this egroup, neither in the sense that you seem to be using the word nor in the correct sense of the word.

A. Whereas the endeavour, based upon her teachings, is the evolution of a more equitous existence for everyone regardless of mental accuity or physical disposition......

SD: If that's the case, it's odd that all that has developed so far is the usual theocratic hierarchy that you find in religious cults.

A. Inherent stresses which cause genetic disfunctions are consequently removed as the sympathetic nervous systems of future parents aren't under the stress resulting from extraeneous habits which go against our harmonious co-existence with other people and nature.. ... and a great master race of Sahaja Yogis will come into being ...  ... If lies are used to bring about a change in our awareness as to  the responsabilities we ought to be assuming, then so be it, ... if a little sexual abuse here and there must be tolerated, then so be it .... much the same was done to establish the great civilisations > the majority accept as legitimite

SD: I guess these weren't the civilisations that were "procured from  the backs of the hungry and dis-eased" that you mentioned earlier.  Which civilisations were these great ones?

A. ... SHE IS GOD, God being omnipresent, thereby in everything; as  the energy causing the very essence of our being to VIBRATE  molecularly

SD: You mean heat?

A. omnipotent in that it ( the word IT literaly translating from the hebrew to mean GOD, as with the word THE )

SD: Which Hebrew words are these?

A. .... logicaly equating the above we can then see that Sri Mataji is merely representing, as accurately as is humanly possible, the action of the kundalini on our subtle system; a good mother will always point out your weaknesses, wether you like it or not, or she wouldn't  be doing you justice.

SD: Does the kundalini lie, steal and cheat too?

A. ... Mother nature doesn't give back what she takes from us, she  gives something else beneficial, but we have to be open to it to  utilize it, you can't demand from her.

SD: I see, so José was wrong to ask for the money back that he had loaned to Mataji.

A. ..... If you only choose to get caught up with the negative  associations which may be inferred upon What she says and does,

SD: Would you give the same advice to the followers of other false gurus who also see their gurus claiming to be Divine yet come across certain stubborn facts that would indicate the lie?

A. you will miss the context in which they are placed, which is the  need for a revolution in our sense of values and the ability to  initiate them.

SD: I've seen the Sahaj revolution in values. People afraid to stand up against injustice if committed by those higher up the hiearchy. People willing to justify simple cases of theft and lying with cant about relative truth and the evils of capitalism. People willing to keep quiet while others' children are sexually abused. People grovelling on the floor before a multi-millionaire guru who claims not to touch their money. People turning the other way while Sahaj thugs threaten to beat up a peaceful critic. People willing to lie in court and to the police because their guru/Goddess tells them to. I've seen the Sahaj revolution in values and it stinks.

A. Children are disciplined corporealy, only, in only India, as an impetus to pay attention, the blow being representative of the demise the individual is likely to experience later in life if they don't pay attention, a demise that is slowly creeping up on the general populace as they day dream their next fantasy, and as discipline for those who go out of their way to make everyone elses life hell. Children cry for many reasons, not all of them justified or justifiable.

SD: You must rue the day that the cane was banned in British state schools ... or are physical beatings only effective when delivered by 'realised souls'?

A. ... one or two rats may have upon occasion bored their way into  mattresses to extract stuffing to make their nests with outside. The  children are merely living with the same conditions the majority of  the world lives in,the reality of which we are unaware in our  cosy 'affluence.' It is one thing to know something intellectually,  another to know by experience.

SD: Considering how beneficial such conditions are, I'm surprised that they aren't advertised on the school's promotional material. I guess the high fees (the same level as India elite Doon school) are needed to spend on keeping the local rat population up.

A. ... If any of the concepts above appear too outlandish you'll need  to remember the same was thought about many things we all swear by  today.

SD: For every 1,000 cranks who invoke the memory of Galileo, perhaps  one is another Galileo. The other 999 are cranks. Your attempts to  expound your grand theories only confirm my belief that you fall into  the 999, but then I believed is similar baloney once myself. Why not drop the grand exposition and tell us about why you continue  to believe in Mataji despite knowing that she lies and thieves like  any other false guru? All these false gurus have followers who give  similar grand expositions of why their misbehaviour is really a  divine manifestation.

What makes Mataji different? You as a believer are willing to accept  the excuses you have offered. As a non-believer I find them absurd.  Let's now talk about the reasons why you believe. Is it the usual "I  cannot express it but I just know it in my heart" or string of  coincidences that most cult members come out with or is there some  other reason?

     1835 From: Miguel Henriques  <migcah@h...>  Date: Thu Oct 26, 2000 11:12pm Subject: Play God

  p39559: People have been playing God for ages, to what end.

M: Ages have been playing God for people, to what end God has been playing people for ages, to what end People have been playing ages for God, to what end End has been playing for God, to what people? Mig.

  1836 From: Karl Wilson  <karlhwilson@y...>  Date: Fri Oct 27, 2000 1:23am Subject: [SY] Re: From: Juan

p39559: People have been playing God for ages, to what end. If the action of the Kundalini is to give us union with the absolute;  God, then upon that union you 'become'/ literally translated 'to make  attractive', God as two objects united become one object. If you only  choose to get caught up with the negative associations which may be  inferred upon What she says and does, you will miss the context in  which they are placed, which is the need for a revolution in our  sense of values and the ability to initiate them.

K: I am still trying to make sense of that post. Mataji can have the money, if by passing through her purse it somehow  gets cleansed of it's evil karma then by all means, give it to her. Mataji can behave hypocritically, if by doing so she transmogrifies  the humans of this culture into saints who know how to live without  destroying the earth. Time will tell...it doesn't really matter to  me. I do find it curious though.

My personal experience in SY did not bring me to a place where I  could see it working as advertised. (I usually follow a statement  like this with some sort of self-deprecating statement like "maybe I  am too low level" but I am going to try to dispense with that hogwash  from now on. I am who I am, and that's not too shabby)

I think the foremost obstacle for me was the absence of an actual  freedom to doubt or even just an actual freedom to think  independently.

  1837 From: Karl Wilson  <karlhwilson@y...>  Date: Fri Oct 27, 2000 1:30am Subject: Re: [SY] Play God

p39559: People have been playing God for ages, to what end.

M: Ages have been playing God for people, to what end God has been playing people for ages, to what end People have been playing ages for God, to what end

End has been playing for God, to what people?

K: sad young people on an aging train playing god till they end...

 1838 From: Simon Dicon Montford  <sdm@e...>  Date: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:10am Subject: Re: From: Juan from Juan

From: Juan Etchepareborda [juan.etchepareborda@b...] Sent:  26 October 2000 15:20

Juan: Mataji personally lied to me. There is no alternative  interpretation. I'll tell you the story in case you didn't grasp the  details. Guido was putting the money of the children's fees in his  pocket. A Sahaja Yogini, let's call her Marcia, told the swiss  parents about it.

When Guido unnecessarily zealously requested that the swiss kids  return to Rome after the summer vacation we proposed to keep sending  money to finance whatever improvements they wanted to do in the  school but to keep the kids at home as long as we wanted. Guido  didn't like the idea, and insisted it was Mataji's desire that the  children stay permanently in the school after the age of 3.

He told Mataji about our objection, and she went into what she later  said had been one of her worse angry fits in her life. I was the  living proof that my wife knew nothing about this matter yet Mataji found in her a scape goat: She accused her of spreading lies  about Guido. She lied to protect Marcia from Guido, and chose to  ignore the accusations againt him. My wife was exhiled to Austria for  8 months, not allowed to set foot in Rome were her children (aged 4  and 1) were to stay permanently. Problem solved.

Being personally lied to by the immaculate Goddess was a blessing.  Even if initially I filed the pain into "this is a test" the fact  that she lied, made it increasingly difficult to swallow the far- fetched alternative interpretations to many other disturbing  happenings.

{extract only from a different conversation}

Juan:  What does "voluntarily" mean to a Sahaja Yogi? Who's will are  we talking about? Isn't the whole point of becoming a Sahaja Yogi  merging theindividual will to the divinewill? Wasn't that the whole  idea, when yourindividual desire becomes thedivine desire of the  divine mother?

A. Which is ultimately represented to the individual by the action of the kundalini within, which is the innate process that will prove the actions of SriMataji, Good or Bad as the perception may be.

Juan: You have certainly experienced situations were your vibrations  are in contradiction with leaders or Mataji's instructions, and you  know that Mataji's instructions are priority. How do you explain that  individual DIVINE desire is in contradiction "God's" desires.

You know very well the life of confusion a "free-mind" in Sahaja Yoga  is in for. A free-mind is exhausting, it creates fear, doubt and  trouble in the collectivity. It feels good to end-up discarding as a  subtle ego and surrendering to the collective desire, i.e. the  party's diktaat.

Even if it means silencing doubts when ridiculous golf courses  purchases come-up, or when you are told to divorce your wife. So when  the divine mother tells you her divine desire is that you send your  kids 10'000 miles away what do you do?

A. For their own good. Despite your inferences.

Juan: My point. You obey, even if it hurts. Even if somewhere inside  you you disagree. Mataji is responsible for the better or the worse, "whether it means something wonderful like reaching fulfilling collective meditation, or whether it means divorcing your wife,  shunning an old friend or collectively buying a golf course."

A. If you give something, even in loan, do you honestly expect to get it back? If you do then you merely placing yourself in with those who value the money for than the giving, or assistance attributed to the loan. If you at anytime claim to be in 'Sahaj Yoga' and loan money to someone, then you won't worried about getting it back or not, it  may be better for the person borrowing of they did pay it back, if possible, for their own integrity,

Juan: I agree with you, for her own integrity it would have been  better that Mataji would pay José back but you won't be recriminative  if they don't. I have to phone my swiss banker and tell him that his  world-known greed justifies my not paying him back my current loans. Isn't one of Mataji's favorite's "Never claim for a loan, but if you  borrow even a pin from somebody be sure it is returned" (again,  that's how I remember it.

A: Jose got out of Sahaj Yoga as a result of things not going 'his  way'. Within the collective relationships have to be based on a moral  foundation, so as to prevent unease in other people who have their  own things to deal with, like facing their own lustful habits; if you  come clean and say outright, this person and I respect each others  integrity and so wish to have a go at making a life together, then it  removes any suggestion that it is purely a relationship based upon  lust, that is out of respect for the other people, as well as  yourselves. That's all.

Juan: I don't blame Mataji for giving José the choice between SY, the spiritual, and his girl friend, the emotionnal. It makes sense and  it's in line with everything one learns in SY. Actually José knew he  couldn't have both. What I find unacceptable is to associate his  private emotionnal life with the fact that he duly claimed for his  money back.

A: sorry to have upset you, It was unintentional & I will endeavour to see it doesn't happen again. (R2D2)

Juan: sincerely speaking, you haven't upset me, I'm keen on passionate debating. You even managed to get me back to reading the forum again.  It is extremely interesting to realise more about human nature. In  earlier days, Sahaja Yoga was for us the ultimate new religion, the  advent of the Kingdom of God on earth. The slightest doubt of Mataji  collecting money would have been totally condemned.

Yet here we are, discussing politely the details of an organisation  that has turned exactly as other corrupt cults. Mataji is powerful  indeed: The way she has managed to make people neglect rational  thinking over the years, amazes me. That instead of realising the obvious profiteering and corruption, Sahaja Yogis are made to  deliberately and independantly find tortuous ways to spare their  blind faith is a master's job.

I thank her for lying at my face. Without that chance, I would  probably still be one of you, mentally and emotionally imprisoned in  a corrupt organisation, yet just as you, convinced that I'm in the  one and only path to truth. Would that silenced critical voice be  still alive? Juan


1839 From: Simon Dicon Montford  <sdm@e...>  Date: Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:10am Subject: RE: [SY] Shri Mataji and Money webpage at www.sahaja-yoga.org

Jane :Unless I've misread what you have attached there is a comment  somewhere about Sri Mataji's husband "professing/claiming" to be "a  follower" (sorry I should really give a direct quote here, but I  can't get the attachment to open again).    SD: Yes, that's the way it is now.   J: During the brief time I was in Sahaj Yoga I kind of got the  impression that her husband was a Muslim who was in no way a follower  of Sahaj Yoga - which caused me much ammusement at the time!    S: That's the way it was. He didn't believe she was God at all. He  even struck her when they argued. Mataji used to cry in the arms of  sexually abusive leader Warren about CP's treatment of her. He also  wanted her to keep a low profile so he wasn't embarrassed at work.  Mataji's daughters didn't believe in her either. One commented that  she'd rather believe CP was God than believe that Mataji was God.   It seems that since CP has retired he has changed his tune and is now  professing to be a believer. Recently 2.5 million French francs was  spent on a castle in his name so maybe that was the pay-off for  supporting the family business.   J: Just how long were you in Sahaj Yoga Simon?    S: 6 years   J: Did you get anything out of it whatsoever?    S: I learnt to be suspicious of all these gurus. Mataji taught that  and it is worth learning. In the end the biggest lesson was learning  how I could be duped. I don't think I needed 6 years to learn that  but it sure makes the lesson well learnt.   J: Some of you seem to have been in it for years and years before  seeing the clay feet! Why?    S: I think there are a number of reasons and they vary from person to  person. Once you accept that Mataji is God and that it is negative to  doubt her, you are in a kind of mental trap. Many people need quite a  jolt to get them out of it.   Another point I would say in my defence  :-)  [apart from the fact  that I was only a teenager when I got involved] is that the money- making was not so obvious in the 1980s. When I joined in 1985 Mataji  had procured no properties with Sahaj Money (as far as I know). She  only had her house in Knightsbridge, London. Because she had no  properties the pujas were less profitable because there were higher  overheads. Yes you could see money putting envelopes of cash into her  handbag during Guru Puja once a year, but it was only a few thousand  pounds.

I asked where the money went and I was told it went to Projects in  India which seemed reasonable although I hadn't heard of any of them.  Later I was told that the Projects in India money had been used to  buy land for a school (it was only a year or so ago that Juan  mentioned that it was actually donated by a Sahaja Yogi).

The India Tour did seem very expensive - an obvious rip-off - but  nobody disucussed the cost and I only found out about the rip-off by  1988 when I went. By then I was blaming the leaders for all the  problems in Sahaja Yoga. It would have been disloyal to Sahaja Yoga  (ie negative) to discuss any of these issues with non-Sahaja Yogis.  You could only discuss them with Sahaja Yogis with whom you were  close - and in that environment the possibility of Mataji's fakeness  will simply not come up for discussion.   All this is just part of the story. There are other issues but I  don't want to go on and on.   J: You must have got something out of it!    Yes, hope and joy. However, the hope was false and the joy was the  joy of finding fool's gold.   S: I experienced some meditation which I valued at the time, but I no  longer value.There were some good times, as there would have been if  I'd been out of SYoga.   Best, SD      1840 From: Simon Dicon Montford  <sdm@e...>  Date: Fri Oct 27, 2000 8:54am Subject: RE: [SY] France

Kate: thank you for your reply, even if in some ways it shocked me...  I have another question, do you know anything about the situation in  France?

S: I don't know a lot about France. I'm BCCing this reply to a few  people who know more. Perhaps they'll either write something into  this list or write something to me that I can pass on.

K: Recently SM talked about how lucky are Italian SY because they are free to do SY While in France they are not allowed anymore.

S: As far as I know, Sahaja Yogis are allowed to practice in France  but they keep a low profile when it comes to recruiting new members.  I once heard something about them focusing their energies on  recruiting in Francophone Africa while the situation was difficult at  home (although how far this policy was enacted I don't know).

K: I was thinking what happened in France and if there was any case  that brought up SY in the negative attention of some government and  media around the world.

S: I hope somebody else will help me out here but I think the Johann  case may have been an important factor. I'm informed that the case  concerned a 8 y.o. french boy who was attending the school in India.  The affair started when the boy wrote to his grand parents telling  them that he was sick and was missing them.

The grandparents interpreted this letter as an S.O.S. and initiated  the legal case. The case created a precedent and now in France, grand  parents have certain rights over their grandchildren's upbringing. More recently there has been some protest from the locals in the area  where Sahaja Yoga has spent 2.5 million French francs on a castle  which was bought in the name of Mataji's husband.

Funnily enough Juan found himself calming the locals down and reassuring them that the Sahaja Yogis wouldn't be bad neighbours. The press got onto the case and Juan was invited onto a popular French current affairs TV program. Juan turned them down but suggested that his brother José to go along and relate how Mataji had reneged on a loan to him. There was also a girl on the show who had been terrified of leaving SYoga for fear of getting an incurable disease.

The journalists had contacted the Sahaja Yogis for their side of the story. However, they soon noticed that the Sahaja Yogis were trying to deceive them by denying facts like the washing of Mataji's feet (which they had witnessed themselves on video). They still offered a platform to Sahaja Yoga but the French leader pulled out shortly before filming.

K: I wanted to find out more about SM & SY in the web, but I couldn't  find almost anything apart from this site and the official one.

S: I guess by 'this site' you mean www.sahaja-yoga.org rather than the homepage of this mailing list at: http://www.geocities.com/yogamail

Both sites have links to other sites, the former only critical sites but the latter has links to both neutral and positive sites including Vlad's site and the whacky www.adishakti.org

If you speak French, you may be able to find more info on France at Tout Sur Sahaja Yoga: http://members.tripod.com/toutsursahajayoga/sypage1.htm

I append a few of the links from www.sahaja-yoga.org Best, SD

The historical background of Sahaja Yoga http://members.tripod.com/toutsursahajayoga/origins.htm Shri Mataji's Bid for the Nobel Peace Prize  

   1841 From: Lumi S Sammallahti  <lsammall@c...>  Date: Sat Oct 28, 2000 4:31am Subject: Loans in SY

A. If you give something, even in loan, do you honestly expect to get  it back?

L: This is hilarious. I thought that paying back your loans is self-evident. Well, maybe these old-fashioned moral laws are changed now. Dear R2D2 (or P33??), would you like to give realization to the manager of my bank and bring him into SY so that he will only  enjoy the giving part of the loan. Lumi   1842 From: Lumi S Sammallahti  <lsammall@c...>  Date: Sat Oct 28, 2000 4:37am Subject: Exhile

J: My wife was exhiled to Austria for 8 months, not allowed to set  foot in Rome were her children (aged 4 and 1) were to stay  permanently. Problem solved.

L: When I imagine the pain your wife must have experienced I almost die. It is hard to believe that she is still in one piece.   


Home ] Up ]